okay, here's the difference between the mit and clemson crew: clemson won, and mit didn't. sure, mit has made big improvements and them beating princeton is a big deal, but at the same time, it's not winning. and in case yall haven't noticed, racing is about winning.
People, people--- the point of this whole thing is not to trash any crews but to recognize 6 crews who "executed an exceptional race or overcame difficult conditions and or opponent to win," and people will vote for the one crew they feel is deserving of "Crew of the Week" for THIS week. It can be collegiate, junior, elite, club, or even (*gasp*) masters. And yes, it could be a women's crew as easily as a men's. It could be an 8+ or a 1x. And there's no right answer. Many people vote with their hearts, others (who may have no emotional attachment to the half-dozen offerings that week) may make their choice based on the info on the COTW page. It's NOT about Dvision I vs III or men vs women or cMax ratings; it should be about a crew who had an outstanding outing this week. It's about who YOU think deserves the label Crew of (This) Week. But I'm getting sick of the carping and negative comments. I think all these crews are deserving of praise (hence the nominations). Congratulations to all 6 crews for having a great week.
Two things:
1. The CMAX rankings predicted that MIT would fall 11.1 seconds to Harvard, but when they took Princeton, they closed they only fell to Harvard by 7.5 seconds (almost 4 seconds faster than predicted).
-Forget the argument,"is everyone who beats Princeton gonna get Crew of the Week"...If Columbia got Crew of the Week for beating Princeton, MIT definitely deserves crew of the week for doing the same.
If someone had asked, say two or three years ago, when (a) Clemson was going to beat Virginia in the ACC Championships, and (b) MIT was going to finish ahead of Princeton in a dual race, without Princeton breaking anything, I think the answers would have been something like (a) within five years or ten years, and (b) the year 2150.
Clemson is ahead of schedule, more or less, for being competitive at the top of the ACC. MIT didn't even have a schedule.
I think it's terrible to get nominated for boat of the week and then have people rip you just because they are voting for someone else. What Clemson did was a great step for their program. But I voted for MIT.
On the whole MIT being this huge improvement thing? What about the other crews they have races. Has MIT improved that much really? Last year they beat Williams by 2.5 seconds, this year they beat them by 3.2 seconds. As one example. Also I know ergs don't float and all the stuff, but they are telling. Why is it that MIT has 4 5:50 2k and the other 4 are under 6:10, with a boat average under 6:00, but they can only beat Williams with a boat average in the 6:10's by 3 seconds? Just wondering. Is Williams and the rest of the NERC over achieving, or is MIT underachieving, based on the power available?
I have no idea what your source is, but I know for a fact that MIT doesn't have a single guy under 6:00. Also, in case you haven't noticed, Williams is also on the rise. This year they won the Head of the Charles, after being 11th the year before.
that is absolutely false.
MIT does not even have one 5:50 2k. Also, I am pretty sure they only have one guy on the verge of breaking 6 minutes.
In fact, I'd almost be willing to bet MIT's boat average is the same or higher than William's.
Good idea sunestep. We should also separate out all the Divisions (I, II, III), club programs from non-club programs, disabled rowing from non-disabled, etc. That's what they do in basketball so we should do that in rowing.
MIT HWM all the way...AND all for Title 9~am a Mom Brown grad ;-)...so why are we required to vote for/against men and women in this polling...isn't that like comparing apples to...wait!...men to women...it's not like they row in the same heats against one another...how hard is it for row2k to set up separate voting for men, women,highschool?
People need to stop making hypothetical comparisons and look at the facts. Winning the ACC Champs for Clemson is a big deal. MIT will never win Eastern Sprints. 15 of the top 20 crews in the country are in the EARC, the ACC has 2. Beating Virginia for the first time in 9 years to win the ACC Champs is certainly not an easy task, but Clemson is on par with Virginia and always has been close behind them. MIT has never been close to Princeton. Just last year, they lost to Princeton and Harvard by 24 seconds in the Compton Cup. You can make all the excuses you want about Princeton being slow this year, but Harvard is certainly better than they were last year and MIT closed that gap by 16 seconds. MIT does not have U23 athletes on their team, they do not have the funding that Princeton has, and they certainly do not have the depth. If you think that Clemson over UVA was a bigger upset than MIT over Princeton then I would love to take a hit of whatever you're smoking because that must be some goooood stuff.
Totally agree, I was going to post something similar... From '06-'08, MIT lost to Princeton in the Compton Cup by 47, 31, and 24 sec. Those same years, Clemson lost to UVA at ACC's by 12, 5, and 10 sec. Congratulations to Clemson, it always feels great to finally beat a long-time rival, and I'm sure they worked hard to earn it. But, MIT's accomplishment is bigger in terms of how much they improved, and what they accomplished with the people they had. Clemson has a 1V, 2V, 3V4, and an N8 - MIT barely has a 1V and an N8 - very little depth to work with. Going from a joke in the EARC to beating one of the teams that's usually on top is huge. Go Tech!
"Not since Youth Nationals in 2007 have I seen a quad row that fast. Those guys in '07 were fast, but man New Canaan is burning the water up!" - Actual quote from Sir Matthew Pinsent as he watched the New Canaan quad cross the finish line last week at Mercer Sprints. Mahe Drysdale, who was watching as well, agreed and commented sarcastically on their excellent bladework.
MIT has the most difficult admissions process in th US. Recruits can be introduced, but no exceptions are made. It is much like the service academies deal with in recruiting. These young men row and also confront the most challenging curriculum in the US. They are all engineering majors. Most were not national junior champions, many did not row in high school at all. Their accomplishment is one of mental and physical determination. Not to at all diminish the ability of any of these other crews, but these young men face a training schedule equivalent to any other rwoing program , but with the additional challenge of an incredibly rigorous, sometimes bruta,l academic schedule that not one other program in this country could match. That is why they deserve COTW.
Not everyone at MIT is an engineering major... they have plenty of other good programs, engineering just happens to be what they're most well known for.
Please. This is neither true nor relevant. MIT rowers take classes like everyone else. From what I've seen, your attitude is not shared by people in the program, and posts like this just make MIT look bad. Focus on the rowing please.
my apologies/no offense meant and it is true about admissions/i was talking about this particular boat as to engineering majors/you are correct, MIT has a complete liberal arts curriculum
First, it isn't even true that everyone in the boat is an engineering major. Second, there is no major league rowing. Every rower at every school is taking classes to prepare for careers outside of rowing. MIT is not special in that regard. Third, none of this matters. Rowing is about getting eight guys to move a boat. Everyone has obstacles to overcome. MIT has difficult classes, I agree, but those classes are no bigger or smaller of an obstacle than any other crew faces.
ok a few things clemson has 4 FOUR count them four current U23 people on their team
see this article, if your team had this many wouldnt you kind of expect them to win the ACC championship - id vote for them if they won the ncaa championship, but this is sort of a joke, look
http://clemsontigers.cstv.com/sports/w-rowing/spec-rel/071008aab.html
also, this is a prime example of throwing money at a wall they have a new boat house a new race course etc and around 60 people on their roster, if you get enough scholarship rowers you are bound to win something, even the acc tournament
http://clemsontigers.cstv.com/sports/w-rowing/spec-rel/012209aab.html
I decided to procrastinate by scanning the UVA roster. They list 4 girls with US junior national team experience (several for multiple years) and 3 Canadian junior national team members. These ladies have won multiple medals at Junior Worlds. I don't know what they've done as far as putting athletes onto the U23 teams other than the women's 1x entry on last years team is currently on their roster. For comparison, Clemson's roster shows ZERO rowers with Junior Worlds/junior national team experience.
Clemson and UVA both have similar sized rosters. Clemson's has increased slightly the past few seasons. While Clemson just finished an awesome new boathouse, I would imagine the teams are funded on similar levels and are on par with other teams striving to compete at the national level.
If you think their accomplishment is a joke, fine. Everyone associated with the Clemson program is extremely proud of everything they've accomplished. Based on the results of this poll, others in the rowing community are impressed too.
you misunderstand, the only reason Clemson is wining is because their entire huge team of recruits and u23 members are voting
give MIT some credit these are rowers who overcame a lot to get into MIT and beat princeton!
If i had a team full of u23 people i would expect to win some conference race that has been around for 9 years
MIT hasnt gotten second since 1975 I know anyone on this thread who cares for this history of rowing and not this recent title 9 crap vote for MIT or wisconsin COME ON
Yes, I think I'm misunderstanding you. I thought your argument was that Clemson wasn't deserving because their ACC win was a joke based on their having more funding, better facilities, and more recruited athletes than MIT. I pointed out that they were on par $-wise with UVA (the team they raced, which matters more than how they compare to MIT) and that UVA has a boathouse full of rowers with far more international experience than Clemson. Clemson doesn't have an entire team of recruits OR U23 members as you seem to think. I don't want to take anything away from MIT (or any other team in this poll) as they put up great results to be nominated, but MIT isn't the only team that has overcome adversity. The Clemson girls have been through A LOT and they've battled through everything to FINALLY beat Virginia - who they'd never beaten in the V8. It sounds to me that you have an issue with Title IX and thus, women's rowing. I'm afraid I can't help you with that.
I think people should stop and consider how for decades the MIT men's team (both hwt and lwt) have often been the bottom of the EARC and for how long the Princeton Tigers hwts have been a dominant program.
MIT last beat Princeton in the Compton Cup in 1975. Gerald Ford was President. Disco and bell-bottoms were popular.
For the men in that current MIT Men's Varsity Hwt 8 to do what they did, the reversal of decades of losing to Princeton, is quite extraordinary. They deserve your vote.
Having been a part of the Clemson Rowing program, I highly recommend they win Crew of the Week. Go check out the history regarding Virginia's crew in the ACC and understand just what an accomplishment it is for the Lady Tigers. They have worked long hours behind the scenes so that they could rise to the top. Go Clemson!
Jay
CLEMSON TIGERS ROCK! Pure grit, hard work, and determination has brought these beautiful ladies to this place in history. Good Luck Tigers and believe in yourself! You've got the power!
SJU Womens V8 won the A10 chamionships for the first time ever in history. It's especially impressive because they are smaller than most of the crews they go up against. They got my vote.
yeahhhhhhhhh Hawks.
Couldn't agree more. This crew is exceptional. Followed up an awesome performance at San Diego Crew Classic - Cal Cup Champions by beating UMass by nearly 5 seconds. Great Job Hawks!
"Outstanding!" is what the regatta director said when he presented 8 awards to New Canaan's coach. No team in the history of Mercer/ISA regatta had such an overall strong performance. They had teams in both sweep and sculling, novice to 1st Varsity, won gold in 6, silver in 4 and bronze in 1 of their 13 events entered. Their Varsity Women's and Men's 4X beat perennial powerhouses Conestoga and Malvern, for the first time ever at this regatta. They won the ISA Total Point Trophy, the Women's Large Team Trophy, Girls' Varsity Point Trophy, Men's Large Team Point Trophy, the Heavyweight Men's Point Trophy, the ISA Sculling Championship cup, the Vicky Andrew Cup and the Lloyd Martin Cup. And New Canaan had not won one of these awards in its many years at this regatta. It was truly an outstanding performance by the whole team.
Definitely making history...which MIT's besting of Princeton for the first time since 1975 and coming in closer to Harvard than ever since 1962 IS! My vote goes to MIT!
Before the race, cmax predicted MIT would beat Princeton by 1.8 seconds (you're welcome to check). They beat them a full second less than that. Worthy of crew of the week? Oh, not to mention they lost the race by 8.3 seconds. My vote goes to Stanford. Oh, wait...
and i'm sure rightfully so at that point in the season, since cmax is based solely on times, the only "real" thing in the sport. upsets happen. mit beating princeton was not much of an upset (#17 over #11 according to the USRowing poll). Who cares about #17 and #11 anyway?
MIT threw down this weekend and had an awesome race, beating princeton for the first time in forever, but they still got smoked by the 3rd boat in that race, and just ignoring the 2nd place finish because 1st place was Harvard doesn't seem reasonable. A whole lot of boats gained speed this year, as happens every year, but Clemson making history at the ACC's is a little more impressive because beating a uber-dominant conference rival for the first time is finally achieving the goal of all the rowers who went through the program before you. Making history or taking 2nd place?
WAY TO GO TIGERS! After all the crap that the Clemson women have dealt with in the last 4 years, they finally made it. As a former Clemson Women's rower, I can't tell you how proud I am to be a Tiger and that we finally BEAT VIRGINIA! WAY TO GO LADIES!
Love those Clemson women--they have really been building toward this season- beating the Virginia powerhouse for the first time in nine years deserves crew of the week
Beating Princeton should not be the ticket to getting "Crew of the Week" every week. They obviously are not the same speed as in the past.
I am writing in for Stanford.
In the Junior category, New Canaan High School Crew Club should be nominated for winning 5 overall points trophies and three sculling championship cups at the Mercer Lake/ISA Championships this past weekend. New Canaan has not previously won any of these trophies, though has often placed second behind perennial powerhouses Malvern Prep and Conestoga. This year, they raced in 13 events and won medals in 11 of them (6 gold, 4 silver and 1 bronze), including gold in the premier events of the Men’s Varsity 4X, Women’s Varsity 4X and the Men’s Varsity 8X. The Total Point Trophy, Women’s Large Team Point Trophy, Girls’ Varsity Point Trophy, Men’s Large Team point Trophy and Men’s Heavyweight Point Trophy were also brought home by New Canaan. 66 Rowers from the program competed in events from Novice to Varsity, with great results.
Virginia's dominance in the ACC has been total; that Clemson beat them (and by a large margin) in Rich Ruggieri's second year at Clemson is exceptional. It is the announcement of a new power developing on the women's side. Nothing against MIT, but all they did was be an average EARC crew (though clearly that's better than before). Wisco will have other days to be crew of the week, like when they win either the EARC or the IRA again . . .
If this were basketball, I'd be really impressed by winning the ACC claim, but this just isn't a deep or very competitive conference in rowing. Its not the Pac10, EARC/EAWRC or even Big10.
So, to summarize, the arguments are:
Virginia had been dominating Clemson at the ACC for 9 years, so Clemson reversing that is deserving of CotW.
or...
Princeton had been dominating MIT at the Compton Cup for 33 years, so MIT reversing that is deserving of CotW.
Seems pretty clear cut to me...
You do realize that you are making the argument that a 14th ranked crew beating an 11th ranked crew is more impressive than a 17th ranked crew beating an 11th ranked crew, right?
I don't think anyone is trying to say that #14 over #11 is more or less important than #17 over #11. The point isn't the rankings, it's that Virginia has been so dominant. This was the 10th ACC Championship. UVA had won all 9 of the previous team titles. Of all the individual ACC races, UVA had won all but 3 - Clemson won the N8 twice and the V4 once. Until Monday. They beat UVA (solidly, by 9.5 seconds) in the V8 and also the V4. It was the first time they'd ever beaten UVA in the V8.
For many Clemson alumni, every stroke we took on the erg or out on the water and every rep in the weight room was to help take the team to NCAAs, win the ACC, and beat UVA. To see these girls achieve those goals has really been remarkable.
Princeton is vastly over-ranked, even at 11th. That MIT has gotten itself to third level IRA finalist speed (perhaps) is a big step, don't get me wrong; but if Princeton had won the 1V in the Ivy League Championship (a wholly owned subsidiary of the Eastern Sprints) for ten years and MIT had beaten them there (but wait, MIT doesn't compete int he Ivy League Championships) it might be the same thing. My basic point: there's more to collegiate rowing in the US than the Eastern Sprints league, and what Clemson did was a first, a huge step for their program.
MIT competes at Eastern Sprints every year, so I have no idea what you're talking about with this "Ivy League Championship" thing (watch The Skulls one too many times?). Princeton won Eastern Sprints by about a boat length in 2006, was 0.1 seconds out of bronze (3.3 out of Gold) in 2007, and took bronze in 2008. They were also 2nd in the Frosh 8+ last year.
Stanford should be on this list with a huge weekend beating Washington and coming so close to Wisco. Stanford is fast, but that's not surprising following silver at the IRA in 2007 and a return to the grand finals again in 2008. MIT is a remarkable improvement over last year. MIT was dead last at Eastern Sprints in 2008 while Princeton were the bronze medalists. Less than a year later and MIT is the crew that is digging deeper to pass Princeton in the last 300 meters. I think its awesome for the EARC that crews like Columbia and MIT are now contenders capable of knocking off the big dogs.
Princeton is a big dog, an elite crew in every category where they compete with very strong recruiting, coaching, and funding every year. Princeton gets one of the best recruiting classes year and year out. Over the past 10-15 years, only Harvard or Brown can rival Princeton's position as one of the finest at the top of the heavyweight eights in the EARC. Maybe its an off year for Princeton since they're not winning every dual race, but they're a fast crew and they've beaten other fast crews in close races. At San Diego, Princeton pulled out a win over Yale to get into the Grand Finals. In a close race with MIT on Saturday, it was MIT who upset Princeton. That's surprising and worthy of crew of the week here. I'd bet MIT's crew is mostly comprised of guys who learned to row in college. To beat a boat full of former junior national teamers and recruits is very impressive to me.
Wisconsin's wins this weekend were very impressive, but certainly not unexpected. MIT was 24 seconds behind Harvard and Princeton just last year at the same cup race. This year they walked through Princeton in the last 500 and only trailed Harvard by 8 seconds! My only question is where is Stanford in this weeks poll?
29.5%