Erg scores and other criteria are like intelligence tests. Low scores are often situational, and may not be a factor. High scores are never the result of good luck. The daily horse racing form presents all the data you need to consistently pick winners, and a few very experienced people can do it regularly. I suspect that kind of skill and experience is what makes some coaches consistent winners.
Two different questions are getting mashed together in some of the comments. Question 1: How predictive are erg scores of race performance? Question 2: Should erg times be normalized to a certain weight? Let's let lightweight rowers and coaches answer question 1. After all, their weights are uniform, so they don't need to think about question 2. Regarding weight adjustment, at the upper levels of the sport, the weight differences aren't that great -- HW men are going to weigh between 180 and 220 -- so the adjustments aren't going to be huge. I think the differences in adjusted times within these weight ranges pretty much fall into the zone of race- predictive ability of erg times. In other words, I think most people would agree that large differences in erg scores do correspond to differences in on-the-water performance. But smaller differences in erg times don't. And what I'm saying is, the time adjustments associated with the weight range of a typical top-drawer team (exhibiting the expected variations in weight among the members) are just not great enough to take you out of the "zone of unpredictability" of erg times generally. Where this would seem to me to have the most utility would be for scholastic rowers being recruited for college teams, where you have a wider variation of weights. I have surprised by the number of college teams that just cared about erg scores, regardless of weight. There are a suprising number of large (170+) high school girls out there, with obvious extra weight on board, who generated a lot of coaching interest because of a good erg score. I will say flatly, that there's no way a 170 lb or greater high school girl can "pull her weight." It's tough enough for a 185 lb. high school boy to do that. Coming from an era when there were far fewer scholastic rowers, the members of my college crew were far more likely to have been high school basketball players than high school football players. Power to weight ratio matters, so it seems like weight-adjusted erg scores make sense in concept. In practice, with top-level teams, it seems unlikely that the differences in erg times -- whether weight-adjusted or not -- are going to be great enough to supply any useful information about who should be in the boat. That has to be discovered on the water.
Seat races are the way to go when it comes to heavyweights. Power on the erg means nothing if you can't apply that power in the water. And a seat race takes the weight of the rower, his power, and his skill on the water all into account. For lightweights thats a totally different story. You can't boat someone who is 5 pounds above average over someone at average if there is only a few seats difference between them over 2k. I've seen plenty of lightweight teams who have fast ergs, but because they have problems making weight they can't perform on race day after weigh-ins.
Using weight adjustment when just comparing erg times (not using it for seating in a boat) is a good tool. It pisses off your bigs because they think the coaches are giving more credit to the little guys even though they (the bigs) had just busted out a sweet erg time (this is where the coach tells them they need to just flat out be faster - and they will because they think the little guys are closing in on their seat) and it gives the smaller guys a more opportunistic view into possibly making a top heavy boat, so they continue to work just as hard. At least that's how i felt when my coach did it.
Oh yeah, what an incredible spectacle that was! Watching that guy who graduated from Penn State like three years ago beat up on a bunch of high school novices was exhilarating!! I saw him walking around Port Dalhousie that night with his medal on and I wanted to say hi but he was surrounded by girls.
The flyweight category is to rowing as go-karts are to NASCAR. It's kind of the same thing. Just much worse. Why take a sport where you can go fast, and make it slower?
One thing is for sure WEIGHT PULLS. Even when you do the math there are many more things in the boat that just cant go into the weight adjustment formula.
weight pulls for sure....but enough to overcome the other detrimental effects....not always. I have never seen a top boat filled with "heavy set" rowers. As for the 160 lb vs the 220 lb comment. I'd take the 220 lb guy if they were 6'5" over the 160 lb guy at 5'11"
I'll take a 160 lbs guy with a decent score than a 220 pounder that's a second or two faster. Doesn't mean I won't seat race, but I see too many guys in boats that are big and don't pull their weight.
from a physics standpoint weight is a big factor affecting the performance of the shell (friction) and on the erg (inertia/momentum).
Attitude, desire, thrust to weight of the rowers (ie weight adjusting), and boat unity are probably more important than perfect technique regarding boat speed.
Seat racing depends on all involved pulling equally for each rower being evaluated...not alway the case, I've seen plenty of petty personality conflicts come into play.
Erg scores only tell about 10% of the tale anyway. Technique and attitude are the important parts. Fact is, you can't boat based on erg scores and expect to go fast.
wow, really only 10%. I'd like to read that journal article. Plus I've seen plenty of rowers with great attitudes who were just plain slow. the key is boat moving ability as the poll is showing.
Exactly my point, boat moving ability. An erg score is just a number, tells nothing about actual ability on the water...also see number8's post. He's right on as well.
The erg does show in how much shape the rower is but at the end of the day its just pulling a chain. See how many erg-rowers you got that place like 3rd on the crash b's and cant do anything in a boat. (even tho there weight calc is excellent...)
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The flyweight category is to rowing as go-karts are to NASCAR. It's kind of the same thing. Just much worse. Why take a sport where you can go fast, and make it slower?
03/11/2010 8:19:50 AM
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Attitude, desire, thrust to weight of the rowers (ie weight adjusting), and boat unity are probably more important than perfect technique regarding boat speed.
Seat racing depends on all involved pulling equally for each rower being evaluated...not alway the case, I've seen plenty of petty personality conflicts come into play.
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